Is Iraq Worth Dying For?

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"We will finish the work ofthe fallen"
-- George W. Bush
President of the United States

"Sadly, Peter's life was taken by an ungrateful people and for a cause that has lost all meaning."
-- Shannon Enos of Dartmouth, whose husband, Army Spc. Peter Enos, was killed in Iraq

PRESIDENT Bush makes the case for war by linking a purely political goal to the flesh and blood of American soldiers. That was the most compelling part of this week's too-rare presidential press conference, and it buys Bush time . . . unless more Americans and especially more families of the fallen begin to echo Shannon Enos.

What Enos told the media after her husband's death could run as a tragic and bitter caption to the photographs and video out of Iraq. If there are Iraqis who still welcome Americans as liberators, they are not within camera range. The photographs show people of that country reveling in death, celebrating the macabre, grinning as they wield the remnants of American boots and body parts.

It is sickening and "gut-wrenching," as Bush said during the press conference. Are the photos truth or enemy propaganda? They are both, and that is the dilemma for supporters and opponents of this war.

The pictures may distort the feelings of the majority, but they do not lie. Unless some Iraqis step up and show support for this American occupation, it is hard to look at the country and see a principle or a person worth dying for.

At the same time, it is clear that the kidnappings, killings, and mutilations are being carried out for the reason Bush stated: "They want us to run." As propaganda, it is cruel, brilliant, and potentially successful.

In the precede to his Q&A with the press, Bush stated: "In forums where Iraqis have met to discuss their political future and in all the proceedings of the Iraqi Governing Council, Iraqis have expressed clear commitments. They want strong protections for individual rights, they want their independence, and they want their freedom."

What forums? Which Iraqis? The average American longs to see one citizen of that country stand up in the middle of this recent madness and express a desire for democracy and independence. Demonstrating gratitude for America's effort to help attain those goals would also be nice. Ours is a society used to being emulated and appreciated. If Iraqis don't consider us heroic, how can we believe it of ourselves? Without some show of support from somewhere in Iraq, we are left with Shannon Enos's sad conclusion of "an ungrateful people" and "a cause that has lost all meaning."

Bush's overall performance during the press conference was uneven. He did not answer several key questions: Why must he testify before the 9/11 commission with Vice President Dick Cheney at his side? What actions, if any, did he take after the Aug. 6, 2001, briefing about Osama bin Laden and his determination to attack the United States? Some questions elicited painful-to-watch presidential rambling, mirrored by pained expressions on the faces of White House chief of staff Andy Card, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, and political adviser Karl Rove.

But when it came to explaining his view of the American mission in Iraq, Bush was strong.

"It's hard to advance freedom in a country that has been strangled by tyranny," he said. "And yet, we must stay the course because the end result is in our country's interest. A secure and free Iraq is an historic opportunity to change the world and make America more secure. A free Iraq in the midst of the Middle East will have incredible change."

In an opinion piece published April 13 in The Washington Post, John Kerry, Bush's Democratic opponent, wrote: "While we may have differed on how we went to war, Americans of all political persuasions are united in our desire to succeed. Our country is committed to help the Iraqis build a stable, peaceful, and pluralistic society. No matter who is elected president in November, we will persevere in that mission." If Kerry means what he wrote, the November election will decide whether Bush or Kerry will finish the work of the fallen -- not whether it will be finished or whether all the families of the fallen believe in the cause.

Joan Vennochi, 4/15/2004 Boston Globe.
 

Another Day, Another Dollar
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Not a chance. We could have paid a small portion of the war cost to have Saddam killed instead of sending over so many troops to die in the streets.
 

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You should have taken Saddam out.
He was the weakest link.

The non secular Baathist party would have remained (i.e. non-islamic) and the new boss could have been buttered up with the lifting of UN sanctions and some targeted aid/backhanders.
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Now your left chasing your own tail and there's planeloads of bodybags to process for the foreseeable future.
And the international community is dismayed by such daftness by the boss of the free world.

Not so dismayed that Osamas 'offer' would ever carry any weight in the west tho.
We know that Islamic extremism is a threat.
But its not a big enough threat to warrant the invasion of Iraq.
Afghanistan was OK tho.
 

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It seems that President Bush used our, outrage, anger, and patriotism in the wake of 9/11, to launch some type of neo-conservative agenda.
This is very scary stuff!

GP
 

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Answer me one question....When would've been the appropriate time to attack Saddam?

After he Nukes us?????? After he realeases a biological weapon in the US????? After a few million US citizens die????

Would it be OK then?
 

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Saddam never had any nukes or biological weapons and he was never a threat to "millions of US citizens", that's the whole point. Take your head out of the sand and stop quoting Condi and Dick, no one takes them seriously anymore anyway
 

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Ever so fresh, I know Saddam was a altar boy that got molested by a priest when he was 6.



There are no-good muslims ANYWHERE in this world.Just let Saddam do his thing.The ASO was killing his own people and experimenting with body parts.A very nice leader, right?
 

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That's just it, KMAN. There's a lot of us out here who don't now, or ever fear that Saddam Hussein was any threat to direct an attack of any kind at U.S. soil.

Yes, he has history of invading Kuwait in 1991 and in the next 2-3 years led a lot of butchery using dangerous weapons against the Kurds and Iran. But in past 8-9 years, it seems evident that he figured out living in royalty as a dictator was just fine, thanks. He would have literally nothing to gain by organizing or directing an attack on the U.S.A.

IF YOU disagree and believe he was such a threat to the USA, as GWB and Co have preached during past 18 months, your point of view can be respected.

In the end, you (GWB supporter) and I (non GWB supporter) are not probably a whole lot different. We just have different levels of belief about the underlying theme as presented by GWB.
 

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I would much rather have a leader err on the side of caution than wait too long to act. I still can't believe people are slow to realize this is not the same times as before. We are not protected by the oceans any longer. Why do people have to gain something to strike us ??? They hate us ..plain and simple. The hate stems from various things .....freedom, breaching their land, culture, etc.

It is not like we confronted an innocent country (I know there are alot of good and decent people in Iraq) that has a great track record of peace and good will. I could not imagine having a leader that would sit back and wait until some rogue nation or group did something to us. We should all hate to see our soldiers die and thank them for that sacrifice.
I would like anyone who is against this to go back in history and review the # of deaths in each conflict. See why things happen, why people can't get along.

Fact: Saddam attacked Kuwait
Fact: Saddam used chemical agents on the Kurds
Fact: Saddam's men tortured and raped people
Fact: Saddam had missiles with too much range
Fact: Saddam violated many UN resolution

I didn't agree with Clinton and he was a sneaky-snake ...but didn't wish ill-will on him. I wanted him to lead and protect us.

Different times takes different measures.
 

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What about Muammar Gadaffi? Wasn't he the most evil man since Fu Man Chu, according to Ronald Reagan? Why aren't we invading and bombing his muslim ass?

Here are some facts:

Fact: Gadaffi authorized the Pan Am Lockerbie bombing
Fact: Gadaffi established a "line of death" in the Meditteranean
Fact: Gaddafi's men tortured and raped people
Fact: Gadaffi had a (verified) nuclear weapons program
Fact: Gadaffi sponsored world wide terrorism
Fact: Ronnie Reagan bombed mainland Libya and killed members of Gadaffis family in an early version of the "war on terror"

and FACT: Now he's off the official "shit list" and even got a friendly visit from Tony Blair last month, and we're all buddies

Hey why aren't we liberating the long suffering Libyan people from this (formerly) EVIL DICTATOR??

What a crock. I predict that Saddam will be back on the A list in 5 to 10 years, probably even have his own sitcom "That wacky Sunni Dictator"

more info on our newfound buddy Moo o' Mar:
http://www.rppi.org/outofcontrol/archives/000014.html

Amnesty International report on Libya (to prove what a wiener he really is!):
http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Lby-summary-eng
 

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Right on the head ......this is a different time and we act accordingly now. He saw the writing on the wall. He saw that we are not pussy-footing around now and disarmed and admitted his weapon program. We should have done a few more things towards Libya, and would have in the future if he did not "straighten up". I think we should reward good bahavior and give 2nd chances. I don't want to be buddy-buddy with him, but giving some ease on sanctions and such promotes future compliance. We need to ALWAYS have all eyes on him and not turn our back.


On a lighter note .....maybe we are easier on him because he has that 70's porn hairdo.
icon_smile.gif
 

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Clinton did lead us through eight years of unprecadented prosperity and no war,something the republicans could not do.It is the same old republican song,get them on Clinton's sex life and they just might forget about the economy and the men dying for their own personal gain.
 

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Once again .....deflect, deflect, deflect ...
you pass over the subject material with other stuff. Clinton should have waged war on terror .....wow he sent a few cruise missiles to (which I liked and wanted more) .....guess what .....deflect, deflect, deflect on his own situation at the time. The economy was set up for a up swing, and Clinton helped some. The internet and technology age surely helped. I am glad Gore invented the internet !!!! I know I did well during that time. .....See I don't have a problem saying Dems do some things right. Has Bush done anything good ?
 

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Deflect has been the key trick used by bush before the election and since.
 

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People!!!!! Wake up..... Just because he may not be a threat today does not mean that in 2-3 years he won't be either!!!!!! He hates the US and would've done anything to see us destroyed.


THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE!!!! You are pretty much making my point for me. One guy says, show me a picture of the weapons.....Yeah, Saddam is just going to leave them out for plain view.
lol.gif


Everyone wants proof!!!!!! these are the same people who believe OJ is innocent. It's sad but it looks like the only way you liberals will believe that Saddam is a threat is if he bombed a member of your family.....Even then you may not believe he did it.
icon_rolleyes.gif
WOW!!!! That's some serious denial/brainwashing.
 

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"People!!!!! Wake up..... Just because he may not be a threat today does not mean that in 2-3 years he won't be either!!!!!! He hates the US and would've done anything to see us destroyed."

There's a small problem with this logic, Saddam is one of many that hate us and would like to hurt us. Bullying, dictorial world policies just makes that situation worse.
 

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Is Iraq worth dying for? Hello no!!! Not for a bunch of freaking ungraitfull ragheads and for a President whom only cared about the rich natural resources of the country.
 

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